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Product FAQ

Closets, Decks, Fences & Clapboard Siding

How do I repair a cedar closet?

The CSSB only deals with cedar shake and shingle roofing and sidewall queries. You should contact the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association at www.wrcla.org for more assistance.

I have a question about my cedar fence. Can the CSSB help me?

The CSSB only deals with cedar shake and shingle roofing and sidewall queries. You should contact the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association at www.wrcla.org for more assistance.

I have a question about my cedar deck. Can the CSSB help me?

The CSSB only deals with cedar shake and shingle roofing and sidewall queries. You should contact the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association at www.wrcla.org for more assistance.

I have a question about my cedar clapboard siding. Can the CSSB help me?

The CSSB only deals with cedar shake and shingle roofing and sidewall queries. You should contact the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association at www.wrcla.org for more assistance.

Cupping & Curling

Will premium grade give the least chance of curling over time?

As the grain that runs down the shake is perpendicular to the surface at the butt, premium grade will not curl as easily as material that allows some flat grain.

Why are some of my shakes starting to cup, curl, bow, or warp?

Some curling on a shake roof is normal since cedar shakes are a natural material. Excessive cupping and curling is usually due to improperly placed nails, too high or too far from the edge. If a competent roofing inspector/contractor determines that the excessive cupping and/or curling will affect the integrity of the roofing system, then repairs should be performed to your cedar roof. (See Repair section for further details on repairs and roof inspections).

Environment

Are your members' products made from certified wood?

Members who produce and sell Forest Certified Products can be found at Forest Certified Products. CSSB member mills use salvaged logs for manufacturing cedar shakes and shingles. As cedar shake and shingle production uses portions of trees/logs that would otherwise be left lying on the forest floor, it plays an active role in assisting with forest health maintenance.

What is the difference between old growth, second growth, and new growth cedar?

These terms are used in a variety of ways by a number of organizations, many with different mandates. Due to a significant amount of marketplace confusion and lack of factual evidence, the CSSB does not utilize any of these terms.

Extractive Bleeding

What is extractive bleeding and how does one clean it off?

Extractive bleeding is characterized by the tannins in the wood being dissolved in moisture and migrating to the surface of the product. Rain will sometimes wash these stains away; however if left to weather, the sun can cause polymerization, thus requiring the addition of a tannin blocker and new top coat finish (ensure proper surface preparation before applying new top coat) once the moisture problem has been solved. Compounds containing oxalic acid appear to be the most effective at removing extractive bleeding stains: ensure you use proper safety precautions and follow the oxalic acid compound manufacturer’s application directions. Extractive bleeding does not signify failure of the applied finish, but instead is found in applications where a source of moisture is present. Extractive bleeding is not a manufacturing defect nor is it a finish defect; it is a natural phenomenon that occurs in applications. Tannin blocking products help, however, the CSSB does not provide any finish warranty. Check with your sidewall product manufacturer, finish manufacturer, Member Contractor/Installer or professional contractor for more assistance.

Grading & Manufacturing

What is a shake/shingle?

It does not exist. Both shakes and shingles are individual product types.

How are tapersawn shakes made?

Certi-Sawn® shakes are made using the same equipment and methods as a shingle, except the physical dimensions of these tapersawn products, particularly the butts, are similar to Certi-Split® shakes.

What is the difference between a shake and a shingle?

Generally, a shingle is sawn on both sides and is thinner at the butt than a shake. A shake is typically split on one or both sides. There are important exceptions to this, (tapersawn shakes = shakes sawn on both sides) depending on the specific manufacturing method and the dimensions of a specific product. Shakes are still manufactured by hand, but most are now made using powered equipment. Certi-Split® shakes are made by taking the wood straight split from the block, and sawing it end-to-end at an angle. This creates a shake which is sawn on one side and split on the other, often called a “handsplit and resawn” product. Medium shakes are shakes that measure nominal ½” at the butt. Heavy Shakes are shakes that measure nominal ¾” at the butt.

How are shingles manufactured?

Shingles are always sawn on both sides from a block of cedar. Most shingles are manufactured using a stationary, upright saw. The block of cedar is moved through the path of the saw by a device called a carriage, which holds the wood firmly, but also alternates the angle of the cut with each stroke. After being cut from the block, the sides of each shingle are then trimmed to create square corners on the product. The material manufactured by CSSB members is then bundled with a Certigrade® label, and shipped for roof installation, or for additional processing to create more tailored sidewall products.

What is a mallet and froe?

Originally, all shakes were split from blocks entirely by hand using a sharp blade called a froe, and a mallet. Some shakes are still manufactured this way, typically for special orders. This splitting technique may be done straight or at an angle, depending on the needs of the customer. Shakes which are split straight to create parallel sides, have sometimes been called “barn shakes”. Tapersplit shakes are split at an angle, and are only made with hand tools.

What is a "jumbo"?

A “jumbo” is a specialty order shake, typically a nominal 1″ or greater at the butt. Contact your Member Contractor/Installer for more details on availability and pricing.

What are "Fivex", "Perfection" and "Royal"?

Fivex is a nominal 16″ length shingle. Perfection is a nominal 18″ length shingle. Royal is a nominal 24″ length shingle.

I have in depth grading questions that are not covered in this list. Who do I contact?

For more information on the dimensions and grades of different shakes and shingles, please visit the CSSB’s Certi-label® Products page. If you still need more information, please contact Marty Obando by email.

How are shingles remanufactured?

Remanufacturing takes additional steps to create more tailored shingle products. Rebutted and re-jointed shingles are trimmed again along the sides and at each end. These Certigrade® “R&R” products may then be packaged and sold, or may undergo further machining, such as face-sanding, machine grooving to make Certi-Groove® shingles, or pattern cutting to the butts of the shingles to make Certi-Cut® products. Some manufacturers also offer pre-primed or pre-stained products in different colors for sidewall installation.

Are cedar shingles one sided, and if so, which side faces out?

Cedar shingles have 2 (faces) sides and the best looking face is installed exposed to the weather. The face you like best is the one that should be installed exposed to the weather. (Note: Machine grooved shingles are installed with the grooves exposed to the weather).

What is the difference between a number one grade shake and a premium grade shake?

The difference between the two is only the flat grain content. Premium grade shake bundles contain no flat grain shakes. Number one grade shakes contain up to 20% flat grain per bundle.

Can I use roofing shingles on my sidewall project?

Yes, you can. However, you should note that for the most tailored sidewall appearance you should use specific sidewall product called “R&R” or “Rebutted and Rejointed” on all sides. Roofing materials used on sidewall projects will typically give you a less tailored appearance.

Longevity

What is the average life span of a cedar roof?

The life expectancy of a roof will vary depending on many factors. Some of these factors include the following: age, environment of installation area, quality of wood, quality of installation, care and maintenance performed, foot traffic, and amount of overhanging trees. The CSSB administers a Manufacturer’s Lifetime Limited Warranty on behalf of its manufacturing members. If more specific information about your roof is required, the CSSB suggests that you hire a professional Member Contractor/Installer or obtain a roof inspection to provide you with an experienced, local assessment.

The longevity of a roof depends on many things: the grade and quality of the product used, the quality of the application, climate, salt-water proximity, exposure, and maintenance.

The average life span is approximately 30 – 40 years. We recommend investigating the life span of existing cedar roofs in your area.

Will a preservative treated product last longer than an untreated one?

Pressure impregnated Certi-last® cedar shakes and shingles will generally offer a longer life span than untreated shakes and shingles. Pressure-impregnated preservative treated products prevent moss and mildew buildup, as well as improve longevity, especially in high humidity areas. However, please note that life span is greatly dependent upon the factors listed in the above answer.

Do cedar shakes last longer than cedar shingles?

Generally the life span of a shake is longer than a shingle. However, factors listed in the above do affect the life span. Talk to a professional Member Contractor/Installer or Distributor for more information.

Other Uses

Is cedar plank/board cooking a good idea?

This is considered a culinary delicacy in many restaurants. If you are attempting this at home, ensure you purchase a proper kit containing cedar manufactured specifically for this purpose. NEVER cook with a treated or painted cedar product.

Packaging

What is a square?

A square is a term meaning the amount of product necessary to cover 100 square feet of roofing area.

Where do I find the product label?

The product label is tucked under the plastic or metal band strap holding each bundle of shakes or shingles together. Pressure-impregnated treated products will have an additional treatment label on the pallet strap.

I've heard that some shingles are packaged in boxes? Is this true?

Yes, some sidewall products are packaged in cardboard boxes. Speak with CSSB members for more assistance with your specific product needs.

What is 12/12 pack and 9/9 pack?

“Pack” refers to the amount of product in each bundle. “12/12 pack” means that there are 12 courses each side of the bundle, and “9/9 pack” means that there are 9 courses each side of the bundle. It is very important to understand the packaging dimensions of your product in order to ensure that you order the correct amount.

Pressure Impregnated Fire Retardant Treated Certi-Guard® Cedar Shakes & Shingles

What is Class A, Class B, and Class C?

There are three classifications of pressure impregnated fire retardant treated roofing systems. Both Class C and Class B treatments are available. Class B treated product is used with a special type of assembly to create a Class A roofing system. National Building Codes accept pressure impregnated fire retardant treated products and they are a smart addition to homes in areas where greater risk of fire exists.

Does the fire retardant treatment affect the color of my cedar shakes and shingles?

The color will be slightly darker brown, but they will weather to an appealing gray over time.

Does fire retardant treatment reduce the longevity of cedar shakes or shingles?

The CSSB is unaware of any reduced life span of Certi-Guard® cedar shakes or shingles.

Can fire-retardant treated shakes be successfully painted?

You should check with the treatment company to see if this is recommended and if it will affect your treatment warranty.

Can I use fire retardant treated cedar shakes or shingles as siding above a copper roof?

Certi-Guard® products will not affect the copper; the treatment seals any tannic acid into the shakes or shingles.

Can cedar shakes be treated for fire retardancy and prevention of moss and mildew?

You can treat for fire-retardancy OR moss/mildew prevention. These are two different treatments and are not currently available as one treatment.

What is Certi-Guard®?

Fire-Retardant Certi-label® Premium and Number 1 Grades of Certi-Split® shakes and Certi-Sawn® shakes, and Number 1 Grade of Certigrade® shingles are available pressure impregnated with fire retardant treatment. These “Certi-Guard®” products may be used for Class A, B, and C roof systems. Contact the treatment company for treatment warranty information, accessory product requirements (including recommended fastener types) and application details for treated cedar material. Local code jurisdictions have additional information regarding applications in specific areas.

Is there a fire retardant spray that I can use to make my cedar roof fire retardant?

The CSSB does not support, endorse, or promote topical fire retardant treatments.

How do I know if the product on my job site is treated?

Look for the treatment label attached to the strapping. There should be two types of labels on treated product: 1) a mill label 2) a treatment label.

I heard that wood roofs are banned due to fire risk. Is this true?

In general this is not true. Class C fire-retardant treated products are accepted in most areas of California. Due to a lack of product understanding, there does exist a small number of cities/jurisdictions that do not allow wood roofs. However, the CSSB believes that this choice is misguided and has always been a vocal opponent of this type of decision, in the media, legislative, and court systems. Extensive product tests and in-field weathering have proven that Certi-Guard® pressure impregnated fire-retardant treated products do work and do last. Contact the treatment company for more details and technical assistance for your installation and local area.

Pricing

Can you tell me how much it would cost to purchase a new cedar roof or sidewall product?

The Cedar Shake & Shingle Bureau is a non-profit trade association, and due to Federal Antitrust Laws and other reasons it is not permitted to engage in any form of pricing discussion. We recommend that you contact local CSSB Members in your area who would be pleased to assist you with this query.

Product Donations

I am seeking product donations for my charitable project. Can the CSSB help?

CSSB members have a long and proud history of helping worthy, charitable causes with product donations. Send the CSSB office a written request. Your request should outline the project, the type and amount of product required, along with the expected publicity and community benefits. The CSSB will review your request, and if it, in its sole discretion, deems it to be of interest, will publish it in the upcoming member newsletter to request donations.

Product Inspections

Do member manufacturers know when an inspector is coming to their mill?

No, third party inspection agencies perform random, unannounced inspections at manufacturing mills. Manufacturers do not receive advance warning that an inspector is coming on a particular day or at a specific time. Inspection agencies are independent, third party companies, which preserves the integrity of the inspection system.

Are CSSB inspection agencies exclusive to CSSB members?

The accredited inspection agencies that perform inspection services at CSSB member manufacturers are independently owned and operated businesses. As such, and due to Federal Antitrust Law and other reasons, the CSSB is not able to require exclusive contracts from inspection agencies. Inspecting CSSB member only/and non-member products is a choice made by each inspection agency.

Do all inspection agencies grade product to the same standard?

All inspection agencies have a mandate to ensure that products carrying their logo on the label meet current applicable grading rules and building code compliance regulations. If you have specific questions about Certi-label® product grading, you should contact the inspection agency listed on the product label.

How do I ensure that my supplier sends Certi-label® products to the job site?

Make sure that you specify Certi-label® brand cedar products on the purchase order or contract agreement. Also, when the product arrives at the job site, check to see that the pallets contain bundles which are all labeled with the distinctive “Certi-label®” To see what a “Certi-label®” looks like, click here.

Product Selection & Purchasing

What brand name should I choose and why?

Ensure that you specify “Certi-label®” cedar shakes or shingles for your next project. There are many brands of cedar shakes and shingles in the marketplace: only CSSB manufacturing members are allowed to label their products with the distinctive, reliable “Certi” brand name. Specifying “Blue Label” products is not detailed enough: ask for the “Certi” brand name. Certi-label® products are manufactured within a third party inspection process, giving you a reliable standard of quality. Member products also meet grading rule standards, and offer a limited warranty when Number 1 grade Certi-label® products are installed by a CSSB Member Contractor/Installer.

What are the various kinds of Certi-label® products?

CSSB members produce Certi-label® cedar shakes and shingles with the following brand names:

  • Certigrade®: cedar shingles
  • Certi-Last®: pressure impregnated preservative treated cedar shakes and shingles
  • Certi-Guard®: pressure impregnated fire-retardant treated cedar shakes and shingles
  • Certi-Sawn®: tapersawn cedar shakes
  • Certi-Split®: hand split and resawn, tapersplit, and straight split cedar shakes
  • Certi-Cut®: fancy patterned shingles (pattern is at butt of product)
  • Certigroove®: machine grooved shingles (grooves on face of product)
  • Certi-Ridge®: hip and ridge units

Detailed information on each type of product is available from the CSSB office. View a listing of products by type and member manufacturer.

Roof and Sidewall Designs & Patterns

I want to get a roof that looks "thatched" or "rolled". Where do I get these steam bent shingles?

The CSSB has two members who currently produce/install these products/applications.

Contact:

Daybreak LLC DBA Huber & Associates
Telephone: 386-487-1040 Website: www.huberandassociates.com

Les Jones Roofing, Inc.
Telephone: 952-881-2241 Website: www.lesjonesroofing.com

I would like to put an eagle design on my sidewall. Can the CSSB teach me how to do that? Do you have any literature available?

You have described an advanced, project specific installation technique that takes years of training and experience to learn. This technique cannot be taught over the phone or via a simple manual. The CSSB recommends speaking with your local Member Contractor/Installer for more assistance.

I would like to put a seagull design on my sidewall. Can the CSSB teach me how to do that? Do you have any literature available?

You have described an advanced, project specific installation technique that takes years of training and experience to learn. This technique cannot be taught over the phone or via a simple manual. The CSSB recommends speaking with your local Member Contractor/Installer for more assistance.

I would like to put a lighthouse design on my sidewall. Can the CSSB teach me how to do that? Do you have any literature available?

You have described an advanced, project specific installation technique that takes years of training and experience to learn. This technique cannot be taught over the phone or via a simple manual. The CSSB recommends speaking with your local Member Contractor/Installer for more assistance.

I would like to put a design of my company name and logo on my sidewall. Can the CSSB teach me how to do that? Do you have any literature available?

You have described an advanced, project specific installation technique that takes years of training and experience to learn. This technique cannot be taught over the phone or via a simple manual. The CSSB recommends speaking with your local Member Contractor/Installer for more assistance.

Warranty Availability & Terms

Why is there a discrepancy in the length of warranty coverage from one manufacturer to the next?

Many Manufacturers offer their own independent limited warranties and the length of coverage is up to them.

Can I get a warranty for my Certi-label® cedar shakes or shingles?

Homeowners can obtain a Manufacturer’s Lifetime Limited Warranty, administered by the CSSB on behalf of its manufacturing members when their Certi-label® products are installed by a CSSB “Member Contractor/Installer”. Consult Manufacturer’s Lifetime Limited Warranty for details and product types. If you are having a pressure impregnated treated product installed, ensure that you also contact the treatment company to obtain their limited treatment warranty for the treatment.

Does the warranty cover sidewall products?

Yes, the Manufacturer’s Lifetime Limited Warranty administered by the CSSB covers Certi-label® exterior sidewall products (Consult Manufacturer’s Lifetime Limited Warranty for details and product types) when applied by a CSSB “Member Contractor/Installer”. If you are having a pressure impregnated treated product installed, ensure that you also contact the treatment company to obtain their limited warranty for the treatment.

How do I obtain a workmanship guarantee?

Ask your Member Contractor/Installer. All CSSB Member Contractor/Installers take full responsibility for their workmanship and ensuring products are installed to all applicable standards.

Wind & Impact - Resistance Testing

How wind-resistant are cedar shakes and shingles?

Certi-label® shakes and shingles have been subjected to the UL 1897 fourth edition “Uplift tests for roof covering systems” with exemplary results. The classification for uplift resistance is expressed in pounds per square foot. The test method subjects a minimum 10 by 10 ft. test sample to various short term (1 minute interval) static pressures which represent the uplift forces imposed on roofing systems securement to a specified roof deck when exposed to high velocity winds. In other words it tests how well shakes and shingles hold up when subjected to high winds. It measures the degree to which the roofing material is uplifted from the roof deck.

  • Certigrade® shingles 90 PSF (pounds per square foot)
  • Certi-Split® shakes 180 PSF

A subsequent report by a Florida Registered Professional Engineer converted the PSF numbers into miles per hour figures using the analytical method for wind design of roof cladding set forth in Section 6 of ASCE 7-98 (American Society of Engineers). Results, using no safety factors, are as follows:

  • Certigrade® shingles withstood wind speeds of 173 MPH
  • Certi-Split® shakes withstood wind speeds of 245 MPH

It should be noted that these calculations were conducted for a specific house in the Dade County area of Florida. When converting from PSF to MPH using ASCE 7-98 results will vary depending on many factors including building height, location, roof slope, environment etc. Be advised that all design parameters, assumptions and limitations of use set forth in the Florida engineer’s report are necessary components of further interpretation.

Do cedar shakes withstand hail storms?

Cedar shakes and shingles have proven to be highly impact-resistant roof coverings. Cedar shakes are more resistant to hail than many other roof coverings and this is why Certi-label® cedar is such a good choice for your next roofing project.

The classifications for impact resistance are expressed as Class 1, 2, 3 or 4 which relate to a roof covering’s ability to withstand impacts from 1¼, 1½ , 1¾ and 2″ diameter steel balls, respectively. Contact the individual member manufacturer for company-specific testing results.

Identifying the difference in naturally weathered and storm damaged cedar roofs is sometimes a difficult task. It takes a trained eye to assess a cedar roof and determine if it is in fact damaged due to hail, or if it is just naturally weathered. It also takes a trained eye to determine the amount of repair required. Contact the CSSB for technical assistance.